Certification *** Should it be mandated*** in General Discussion Forum

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Certification * Should it be mandated*

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HvywreckerW900	Certification * Should it be mandated*		Lead	[-]
Posts: 87 11/15/08 20:34:04 Featured Member August 2003Moderator	Tags : None Remove this ad Should towing certification become mandated? Which one should be used? I personally feel that yes their should be a set basic certification for towing operators. I believe that the certification should be integrated from the two main sources of towing certification programs. These would be TRAA and WRECKMASTER. I believe a board should be formed made up of officers from both Traa and Wreckmaster, Government lawmakers, A towing savy lawer and Leaders of the towing industry. I believe a set up such as that would make sure we are all being served well. The cert should contain a basic knowledge test minimum 50 questions. Spanning from general maint to rigging and every in between. Hands on would be great but with the number of towers in the country I dont see that being feesable. New hires should need this certification before employment and current towing operators would have one year to complete their cert exam. Their are about a million blanks to fill in on this but I believe I have a good basic plan for it. I also feel our industry needs this to rise above. To show the public that we are the professionals we say we are. Possibly this will help weed out the unwanted ones in our industry. I know talking about this subject becomes quite taboo. As for some reasons alot of towers disagree with a basic cert program. This is just a basic program. What you wish to do above and beyond this is up to you. I think with an integrated cert from traa and wreckmaster more towers would be willing to participate since it will be views of both main sources of certification. And the board that oversees the program will make sure that all will be served in this. Again our industry needs to rise above and show our true professionalism. With the economic woes in our country only the united and the strong will survive this is one way to bring us up on an outstanding professional level. And I also say we need to organize ourselves before some half ass gov agency tries to do it for us and makes thins 100% worse. I want to hear your TRUE opinion on this and any added ideas you have like I said I think I have a good basic start but their are about a million blanks to fill in. Jr
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general tow		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 149 11/21/08 12:05:45	I would like to see this discussion take off and people show their true feelings. In our state this is being looked at and emotions are mixed. I personnally like the idea of some kind of certification but feel it should be done with the operator in mind and not treated as a money making operation that profits a few at the expense of the operators. What if TRAA and Wreckmaster were to have a program that certified trainers from each state who could then present a program and certify operators in their respective states. Could this not be presented within each state at a more afforadable cost to the individual operators? I am just looking for answers and this is one approach that comes to mind. Steve
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ibflat2		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1411 11/23/08 15:17:47 Featured Member August 2004 WreckMaster #92190 I.T.R.H.F.M. Friend of Museum	Well, first of all the industry as a whole would have to agree on a whole as to the standards and levels. Yes TRAA and WreckMaster have some great programs and training, but for us to get a "level or standard" which will work in Nenana Alaska or Chicago would be a huge undertaking. Would it be like your ASE certifications and have to be renewed every 5 years or so... Does the knowledge or skills even go away with the passage of time. How does this relate to equipment which is not really in use much anymore. Slings - tow bars, verses underlifts and flatbeds? How do you train people on trucks which are not as common as flatbeds ? How many people even have an 480 or 500 Holmes around? And yes, who do we certify the trainers? Is there a need for the trainers to go to school and get certificates like teacher do ? And since we have all different kinds of trainers and training programs, would a basic training program to operate tow trucks be any different then someone teaching classes on Hybrid Safety or even me teaching Price Per Pound.. Would that require a certified trainer to teach it SO many questions and so few answers or thoughts. "To be honest, I'm more worried about what the government can do to me than what they can do for me."
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cbdancer		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 6 12/06/08 13:25:37	Well this is something i will be looking into over the next year as i am now on the board of directors here in Kansasat this point the way i am looking at it is would we rather regulate ourselves with our own rules or do we want the state to regulate us ?? this is the argument that i will be presenting to the board and we will see were it goes George wreckmaster#010474 George Jones www.advancedtowing.net
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ibflat2		#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1411 12/06/08 15:26:06 Featured Member August 2004 WreckMaster #92190 I.T.R.H.F.M. Friend of Museum	George, Congratulations on joining the board of directors in Kansas.. Yes, do we regulate ourselves or do we let the government who can not even control themselves do it for us... Do they even know what a J-Hook is verses a tow invoice? There are lots of thoughts about regulation and some are good and some are bad. Just not sure how to really propose the changes we want. "To be honest, I'm more worried about what the government can do to me than what they can do for me."
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kstowman.tow411		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2 12/08/08 00:18:59	not sure about the wreckmaster cert. for all drivers, for a small company with high turnover, just not feasible...however if one or two were certified by traa or wreckmaster and then allowed to administer a test to the others that might work...similar to a forklift operator license....i.e. for my company i would be allowed to proctor/administer the test for my employees, but they would have to complete it and be sent in to be scored certified by the state (not necessarily wreckmaster).....costs are already too high and adding mandatory certification will only make it higher...would be all for it if you could get the auto clubs to raise their rates, because like it or not that is where the light and medium duty is headed...the auto clubs are going to control the lion's share of the calls and manipulate the pricing....i am in favor of learning, practicing, and certification, but not to the financial detriment of my own company. I want to send the employees that i know will stay with me, not the ones who walk through the revolving door, in our area good employees are hard to find and retain because of the aircraft industry.....they can go get a better paying job there without spending the $$ for certification....I promise these regulations would hurt the smaller companies (not one man operations) more so than the larger companies.... Jason Strickland Strickland Road Service- South Haven, KS Strickland Towing- Wellington, KS www.stricklandroadservice.com www.stricklandtowing.com
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HvywreckerW900		#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 87 12/30/08 12:14:24 Featured Member August 2003Moderator	Jason, I dont beleive it should be a jus t wreckmaster cert. I understand the costs involed with that. And you are right to smaller companys with higher turnovers it would ruin them. I am looking for a BASIC cert program that would be a mixture of wreckmaster TRAA and others. A BASIC cert should be a test only around 50 or so questions. As an actual hands on training program would pretty much just crush the whole thing. Current drivers would have 1 year to comply and new hires would have to pass it before hire. We need to do something thats all I know. But no one wants to talk about this which is crap. Our industry needs to stand up and show everyone we can take care of our own better than anyone else. And maybe just maybe if the towing industry does this maybe things will be in our best interest for once. jr
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general tow		#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 149 12/30/08 18:44:01	Remove this ad This subject came up just today as I was visiting with people from our state towing and recovery board so I am glad to see it resurface here. Most certs have to be renewed periodically and this also adds cost to the program. Why should a person who has constant employment doing this job on a daily basis have to pay someone to re-certify every so often. Could they not maybe require a little bit of continuing education to be documented and that would keep certification current. Also, how would it be to require a towing endorsement on your driver license instead of a certification. A basic nationally accepted test could be developed to be given at the DMV where you get your license and then you get the endorsement. State Association training programs or TRAA, Wreckmaster or other training programs could prepare drivers for the endorsement test. This is just a thought on how this may work on a national level, similar to the CDL program. What do you all think? Steve
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HvywreckerW900		#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 87 12/30/08 19:11:23 Featured Member August 2003Moderator	Well here in New York we do have a towing endorcement on our licence. the question is 20 Questions and was in part worked on by ESTRA. It works rather well but it is pretty simple to pass. My question is should it be easy? I think it should have some teeth to it. If you are not good at reading the test can be read to you or maybe given thru a interactive cd that asks you the questions. Like I said in my first post their are about a million holes to fill in this. I just think it needs to get done. Jr
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general tow		#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 149 12/31/08 10:08:21	I dont think it should be to simple but should have some questions with teeth in them. What you have sounds better than nothing at all. Steve
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HybridHazardsCo.tow411		#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2 05/20/09 22:31:45	Selecting 2 companies as the leading edge to govern how the certification should be presented to students is not a bad idea at all.. Problem is you have many other professional trainers in the US that may not appreciate being left out of the program. know what I mean? We do Hybrid Vehicle Safety Awareness training.. It's specialized training for special vehicles out of the everyday norm. What do we do about this type of training? Add it to the endorsement or make it a secondary class such as what Southwest Tow Op did in Texas. The Hybrid Vehicle Safety Awareness Course is now TDLR approved course# 4467 so it does carry some type of weight early on. Doing something about your ideas is the next step folks.. I noticed this post dropped off in Dec? I think? Has anyone had any other meetings about this and where? Thanks.. great subject. PB - Hybrid Hazards Co. Patrick Bonanno / President www.HybridHazards.info HEV - Hybrid Electric Vehcle Safety Awareness Training HEV - High Voltage / SRS Shut Down + Jump Start Towing Procedure Guides Knowledge = Safety!
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ibflat2		#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1411 05/21/09 09:28:52 Featured Member August 2004 WreckMaster #92190 I.T.R.H.F.M. Friend of Museum	Well as I have said before, training is great and needed in most cases... But then again they can have "OVER KILL" in the training department. Reason I say this is look at our industry were we are basically a jack of all trades... If you can jump start a car you can do it on a semi (in a basic sense)... Fire departments have so many different certifications and levels which at times might get in the way of being actually useful in my mind... First Responders are great and most have training to do what they need to do... But to keep track of all the information and training which is out there and which we might be required, by laws - regulations to have is hard to do... Look at Texas with the different levels of towing license certifications IM, PP all that... How would a well rounded (Not shape) driver handle getting all the needed permits, licenses and such to do the job which someone in Indiana or Nevada does on a normal daily basis... Is there any difference between towing in each state??? Can we handle the "continuining education requirements" needed by some regulatory agencies on a yearly basis if the information does not change. Yes cars are different each year and some laws change, but does the capactiy of a Grade 43 chain change, or the Safe Working Load on a 5/8 wire rope change as much as regulatory laws??? As to training programs or certification requirements by states, are they also financially driven as in they get government money to create the departments and programs and have to really look like they are doing something good? And again how far is to far in regulations... Just because you have a certification to tow cars from one training program does that translate to you can not use another training programs methods... Is the AAA towing instructions in the tow manuals correct or is the manufacturers the right one. What about instructions or guidelines faxed over from Cross Country, WorkHorse or any other program in regards to correct methods... And we all know how "nothing is factory correct and in ideal locations" Training is needed in our industry, but like Pat said, what or who has the correct system and if we only picked 2 as the national standards what about the other trainers out there teaching... (and yeah I am starting to teach PPP) If we said that only WreckMaster and Tom Luciano were the ones who meant you were certified what about TRAA, NATA and even HazMat hybrids programs.... And I know its a bit of a rant, but I see this issue as one where we will never agree on it 100%.... "To be honest, I'm more worried about what the government can do to me than what they can do for me."
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general tow		#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 149 05/21/09 09:52:33	Glad to see this being discussed again. I still feel that an endorsement on the cdl is a viable solution. No one will ever agree 100% on any given program and no will ever have complete agreement on all things concerning towing and recovery. Take the cdl as an example, We are constantly performing calls involving cdl drivers who cant drive. They have the license, but cant drive the truck. They have basic skills to pass the test but the employer is responsible to see that they can perform their duties. I have also seen this in our industry. I do not possess a wreckmaster certification myself but do have many years experience and numerous training classes under my belt and have on several occassions been called in to assist certified operators who needed help performing their jobs. I use this as an example to say that what ever is done needs to be basic and uniform in nature and will only ensure that an operator has been exposed to and was able to pass a test covering basic things involving towing and recovery. More thoughts anyone? Steve
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HybridHazardsCo.tow411		#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2 05/21/09 11:40:32	Remove this ad I like the license endorsement idea for light, medium and heavy duty towing. If they can't pass a general knowledge test pertaining to hookup, towing & handling, capicity limits, wire rope & chain breaking strengths, incident management, they really don't belong hooking to anything and heading down the road. If they have years of experience under their belt from hands on self learning prior to the mandatory towing endorsement law being launched they will be 10 steps ahead of the rookie and have no problem accomplishing the test. If they've never towed a vehicle in their life, they'll need to study up and do some hands on before taking the test / that simple. either way.. once they've passed the state test for the license endorsement at least everyone working with or driving along side that tower will be much safer. Additional 'optional' training then would be nothing more than an additional feather in a Tow Operator's cap should he/she be applying for a job with a towing firm. All of the trainers currently doing training would remain happy because there are tons of operators always looking to cut another knotch in their towing receovery belt.. About Certificates: Certificates of completion with testing are a little more than just a certificate of completion. If you don't pass a test at the end of the class / you don't get the certificate. Personaly,.. I believe that's how all classes should be setup. Spending 1 to 4 hrs in a class then receiving a Certificate for attending wouldn't be worth blocking my wall paper, but If I were handed a test at the end of the class and passed the thing... such as how we do it in our Hybrid Safety Awareness Classes / I'd get a Certificate for my accomplishments while at the class /// that would be a cert I would 'want' to hang on the wall and be proud to present at my next job interview. Doesn't have to be a giant test with trick questions.. but enough questions, say 10 to 20 so that the instructor knows at the end of the class that everyone was paying attention. Those that fail could be addressed after the class in the event some questions were mis-read or just mis-interpeted / in most failed test situations / that's usually the case. also, if the class was paid for by the boss / the boss needs to be reimbursed for the class entry fee by the tow operator for failing to return with the certificate proving that they passed the test.. No bull.. I like to see all company owners stress that point to their employees prior to attending a class. Ya don't pass.. you pay for it.. / no money in the bank? / no problem / we'll deduct the entrance fee out of your next 4 paychecks - period. I'm giving the Hybrid Class up at Lake George, NY on May 30th It was supposed to be just a seminar type class but turned into a 4 hr class. Everyone will be tested at the end and awarded a Cert to those who pass. Because of the time frame it will only be a short test but important questions I need to see answered by those who attend. Not paying attention in a Hybrid Vehicle high voltage safety training class is just as bad as not paying attention in any other light, medium or heavy duty class. Ya really need to focus / or you'll be walking around 2 months down the line with your head up your (bleep) Everyone who goes to this class will be going home with one of our procedure guides which I also feel is necessary after training. Having a procedure guide in the glove box 6 months after the class to refer to, makes life so much easier at the accident or breakdown scene. Hybrid or no Hybrid. ok... back to cuttn the lawn before the wife gets home and finds me asleep at the computer. (again...) Patrick Bonanno / President www.HybridHazards.info HEV - Hybrid Electric Vehcle Safety Awareness Training HEV - High Voltage / SRS Shut Down + Jump Start Towing Procedure Guides Knowledge = Safety!
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