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ibflat2	the post "my thoughts about Tow 411"		Lead	[-]
Posts: 1411 02/23/08 19:29:32 Featured Member August 2004 WreckMaster #92190 I.T.R.H.F.M. Friend of Museum	Tags : None Remove this ad While we have created this forum to discuss issues about towing and we also realize that there are "freedom of speech issues and or bashing" which come up from time to time, we try to allow for members to say what they want... Now due to a complaint, we have started discussions with the Administrators of Tow411.net as they would like the post either edited or removed... This is not what we are going to do at this time, BUT we will review it and see if we can work on the statements. This is not any way, caving into the Tow411 staff, but this action is taken to help try to better the industry by unifiying the industry... Please feel free to make comments about this action and the orginal post... http://ppphdbilling.yuku.com/topic/700?page=-1 We will leave the post up till midnite Feb 24th 2008 so that people can read it and make comments here.. I am going to lock the post so that comments can not be posted to it. Please post them to this subject at this time... Thank you Administrators of Price Per Pound heavy duty billing "To be honest, I'm more worried about what the government can do to me than what they can do for me."
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harold67wm		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 44 02/24/08 00:13:25	I really think that Leo only speaks the TRUTH about some of the problems on 411 and others are not as straight forward and will only think the thoughts, not say them. I would vote for Leos post to STAND!
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autoexpresstow69		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 129 02/24/08 01:22:14	thank you Harold, unfortunately there are a lot of people that feel the same way as we do but for the fear of being blackballed from 411 they choose to do the politically correct thing and be silent, however there are those of us who See it as it is and speak what we feel.....it is what it is....and when the truth is put out there it scares those who don't understand.....i have never backed down and never posted anything that i couldn't back up, these so called folks who seem to have a problem with this post apparently cant see my phone number, i am up all hours of the day and answer the phone 24/7...and on a side note......this is America......and alot of good people died to give us the right of free speech. and i for one will say what i feel as long as i can. *Twinkie Free!*
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BROTHERSANDSONS		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 8 02/24/08 04:35:11	what does one forum have to do with another?Sorry, but, I don't see it. I respect Ron and his territory on 411, and I respect Richard and his PPP board, and I respect Harold and TowTalk. Visit all of them, use all of them the same as a tool for info. Many times I have seen Moderators, and members on 411 ,when they dislike what someone has typed, suggest that individual go and start their own board, well? Some have, how can they intrude? Maybe I am naive in the ways of the internet, but, what are they going to do , take away our keyboards?? Ive said it on 411, and I'll say it anywhere .Leo is MY friend, I know him better than anyone on EITHER board. He is straight forward, NO BullSht, and will back up what he says, and will admit when he is wrong when some one PROVES it to him. Was he treated fairly on 411? depends on who you ask, I see others on there get away with a lot more than what he was accused of. I understand its a "owned" forum. So if I choose to participate I have to follow their rules. Okay. my choice. I just don't see how they can extend those rules to here Richard, you and Harold , went to great lengths to create the forums you administer, I view it as a political party system, and thats a healthy thing, each party has it liberals and conservatives, hawks and doves. Its a good thing for the industry that ALL opinions can be viewed somewhere, so a truly educated choice can be made by intelligent people My vote? ...Let it stand, if they choose to complain let them complain ON the forum and hash out the facts for ALL to see. Not closed door negotiations. We are Towers, not CIA agents. I don't have time for the crap, yet , I am interested in the truth. So LET IT STAND Jan W Brothers Terminal Manager Westway of Ft Pierce 772-519-1058 Nextel - 15830*12396
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harold67wm		#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 44 02/24/08 08:50:45	Leo... You are correct!!! This IS AMERICA!!! and we are suppose to be able to speak our minds! That is just 1 of the reasons that I gave 6 1/2 yrs of my life on SEAL Team 3 in the U.S Navy... to support the rights of this country, including the freedom of speach!!! With that said... I'll be damned if I would ever give into a bunch of self rightous bullies like on that board, The damn gooks in Cambodia and other 3rd world countries could NEVER take the rights away from the American people or control us, WHY in the hell should we let a bunch of self rightous assholes do it??? What can they do to us???Not a damn thing!!! Richard... I do appoligize if I ruffle anyones feathers on your board, BUT... I, as a former(never ex) United States Navy SEAL, will NEVER stand by and let a bunch of assholes tell me or ANY American that we can NOT say what we feel! My self along with all the great U.S. military vets have fought way to long and gave TOO much for OUR rights to be taken away.
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ibflat2		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1411 02/24/08 09:41:32 Featured Member August 2004 WreckMaster #92190 I.T.R.H.F.M. Friend of Museum	Ok lets look at this another way... Freedom of speech we all agree on... BUT is it a "DIRECT BASH" on 411 or its people... Specifics please... Trying to decide what to do here and it is hard to please everyone. Yes I know this is John, Crystal's and my forum. I am just trying to do the right thing here and see what we think about it as a bash or a commentary... I know there is "PROOF" for this, I know I have had problems there before also... But lets see if we can get this settled nicely.. "To be honest, I'm more worried about what the government can do to me than what they can do for me." Last Edited By: ibflat2 02/24/08 12:52:04. Edited 1 time.
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general tow		#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 149 02/24/08 11:53:18	My vote is LET IT STAND. On the other board I hold back some comments and have to stop and think about what I am going to say. I will say that I do not like to read between the lines and second guess what someone is saying. Ron did that to me in the Bad Recovery post in the Good Bad and Ugly section. He did however apoligize and make things right and I do enjoy all the sites. Let this run its course and see where it leads. If it starts to get out of hand then step in and clean it up. Steve
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BROTHERSANDSONS		#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 8 02/24/08 13:51:01	Richard, I agree with your position in principle, yet, I don't understand the need for US to have this discussion. All of the members of 411 have the option to join this forum and deal with the issue as a member. Instead of this closed door negotiation. Can "we" as a forum tell them what they can talk about? no.we have to address the forum concerns in the forum. this discussion, while honorable, and I think with all the good intentions for the Industry, needs to be amongst ALL the principles. If I put up a Post calling Bozo's Big Top Towing Equipment ( a FICTIONAL Name) a bunch of thieves, and backed it up with proof, would they be able to write a note and say "hey, could you take that down"? .......well they could write it, but, If its in the best interest of the Industry, and Towers who may buy their products, I bet it would stand This is almost apples and oranges....and thats a good thing. Rons favorite expression to handle tough subjects is " agree to disagree". How appropriate is that ? I am a strong supporter of 411, I admit that freely, BUT, its a well known fact I do not agree with all their decisions, and ways. My choice. I get to the point where I don't like it enough, I just don't sign on. Its no different than listening in on someones conversation....if you disagree.join the conversation..or don't speak of it.your choice. no one ,to my knowledge has posted a rebuttal to Leo's post..ANYWHERE.so whats the problem ? again.....I say let it stand.....if on nothing else....just on principle Jan
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ibflat2		#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1411 02/24/08 14:02:22 Featured Member August 2004 WreckMaster #92190 I.T.R.H.F.M. Friend of Museum	Well I guess that I will get John to say what really caused this discussion about the post... But it entails access to sections of 411 by members of both boards and the fact that we are trying to move the PPP board into a full service board instead of just dealing with the PPP issues... I will hopefully get John on here since it has all been directed at him so far, I have contacted Ron via E-mail yesterday but I have not had a response from him ... "To be honest, I'm more worried about what the government can do to me than what they can do for me."
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autoexpresstow69		#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 129 02/24/08 14:48:02	thank you all for your support, BUT..........from a legal standpoint............the header These are my feelings on Tow411...eliminate the bashing concern.......the other thing is as we all know.............TRUTH HURTS!.....so if Ron has a problem with this then...sorry about his bad day, those of you who know me ......know me..........i am the real deal............and that bothers those who still see the net as a fantasy land that they can play in without concern for others feelings, well.......not anymore..i am not a bully.nor do i look for a fight or a cause.but when you step on my rights when i was clearly not in the wrong and then when i stand up for my rights and get banned for upsetting someone and post my feelings about it , they decide to cry to someone on another board because they have a problem with it ...well.....where i come from it is what it is and if your feeling guilty then..............maybe i am right! all i am going to say is this and i will be done with it. to those of you who have been there from the beginning ..thank you to those of you who brought this on...............thank whatever god you worship that this came to pass on the Internet......had it been in a bar or a street corner....it would have went the other way......... to those of you who support me, thank you Richard, it's your board , do what you will, however you must think of the message you will be sending others..........i did not come here for a fight, they followed me in here......so i guess i am in a virtual corner... i came here to interact with serious towers from across this great country of ours which would not be possible with out boards such as yours.........again, thank you. *Twinkie Free!*
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HvywreckerW900		#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 87 02/24/08 16:34:53 Featured Member August 2003Moderator	Remove this ad Richard brought this to you the members per me for the most part... Since I am the one who took the virtual kick in the nuts in the back room of the other site. I had things removed from me due to your post Leo, a post that is yours and yours only. You have an opinion and you have the self respect to say what you feel which is an odd quality now days. Ron took this as a direct bash on 411. I seen it as one mans view on what is going on. I do not want PPPhdbilling to become labled as a 411 bash site or a bash site against any towing forum. I believe he is also upset that our site has more content than just Price Per Pound billing issues. I believe this site needs other content to stay strong, and to keep people interested. I have since had some things reinstated to me but not all which I feel is wrong but it is Ron`s site and he makes the final decisions. I wish he would have called me and talked to me before things were done but it did not work out that way. I have always been a stand up member on 411 and have been there since the earlier days of it. My profile says 06 but i screwed up and upgraded to a global user and it reset everything on me. I have always promoted Ron's site and I have brought many people from my area to it. I feel that their should be many avenues for towing information and PPPhd billing is one of those. There is NO reason we can not co-exeist. There is no reason we cant get along, but im not going to be told what to do by someone else, because I respect them and what good they have done for the towing industry . I was very hurt at first, when I found things were taken from me because of another persons view on things because I am a moderator/administrator here. But nownI have had time to think about it and I have never let anyone push me around in person why should I take it on the internet. I personally think Ron should come here and post his opinion on the matter,not to fight, but to address the concerns that people have. A big fight here will not solve anything, if anything, it will make it worse. His reply here would help unite the towing industry. Leo you did what you thought was right you did what this great country was founded on. The right to question whatever the hell you want and get loud about something you feel is not what it should be. I respect you for that. At the same time I do respect Ron for the good things he has done. So what do we do here in this situation. We obviously can not and will not let this become a 411 bash site as some people feel it will become. I personally will not allow that. We are working for a better towing industry arent we? I feel many sites are needed to handle the work load. Things get left out in different places because it is felt that it is not needed or is not a huge response forum but to some people it is important. Other sites are needed to fill the void. I think the post will stay as is, they are your feelings and your view and you have stated that you are not trying to bash tow411, because no one wants the bashing here. I will say it again, I like Tow 411. I post all the time and read it most everyday (well the parts that interest me). So why would I do something to screw that up. I should not have to sacrfice being part of the 411 community just to because I am a part of Richards forum PPPhdbilling. Richard is a very good friend of mine both on and off of the internet. I respect him as a colleague and friend I would never let one person or a group of people screw up the good thing he has started. So I am here to stay. As I will stay on tow411. It just really sucks that Ron thinks I will use the privilages I had there to hurt them or import information from them. That thought never had crossed my mind. I used my privilages to hang out and talk to my friends about what I love TOWING. If I was wrong for being part of more than one place well I guess I am screwed then. Leo your a PRICK LMAO!! and you owe me a beer or two for getting my 411 privileges thrown away. Do it again you will owe me a case and a box of cigars LOL. (John is kidding here) Jr Edited for spelling (John was absent the day they taught it) Last Edited By: ibflat2 02/24/08 17:21:48. Edited 2 times.
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harold67wm		#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 44 02/24/08 17:29:05	Jr... I know just how you feel... I was "Banned" from there too, JUST for being an Admin/Mod on another board... it started out by just being locked out of different rooms, then to a complete ban... I don't know their reasoning behind this "tatic", I quess that they feel that they are "better than everyone else"...I don't know... I really thought that they used to claim they wanted to "unite" the towing industry, WRONG!!!... that is not their agenda at all, they are just TOO self serving for that. 31 years in this great (did I just say that) industry, and the way they act is part of the problem,NOT part of the solution, I've never seen so many self-rightous hypocrites in my life as they have become.
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AllSouthTowing.tow411		#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 7 02/24/08 17:29:26	We all need to come to the fact that tow411 will exist no matter what happens. I have stood behind Leo since day one, and I will continue to also. Why? Because he stood behind me, I have never meet the man, but I know that he will be there to have my back, and he knows I will be there to have his. I think the post should stand. I have had it out with alot of people on tow411, who gives a %#? What does it matter? Let them have there own little world. The facts are its Ron's board, he can tell anyone he wants to piss off and there is nothing you, I, or anyone else for that matter, is going to do about it. I have not been banned from there (yet) and although my post are being deleted again, which does not surprise me, in the end what does it matter? If you delete Leo's post, they have won, if you let it stand, you are doing the right thing. Now, lets move on to better things, don't drop this board, or anything else down to someone's eye level to make them happy. Take a stand, sometimes you have to kick a little to be heard !! Eric Johns All South Towing And Recovery LLC 770-867-7224
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HvywreckerW900		#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 87 02/24/08 20:24:12 Featured Member August 2003Moderator	The fact that Tow411 will always be there is a good thing. It is a good site as is ours. Things will work out for the best I am sure. Jr
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brett holcombe		#14	[url]	[-]
Posts: 29 02/24/08 21:09:41	autoexpresstow69 wrote: thank you Harold, unfortunately there are a lot of people that feel the same way as we do but for the fear of being blackballed from 411 they choose to do the politically correct thing and be silent, however there are those of us who See it as it is and speak what we feel.....it is what it is....and when the truth is put out there it scares those who don't understand.....i have never backed down and never posted anything that i couldn't back up, these so called folks who seem to have a problem with this post apparently cant see my phone number, i am up all hours of the day and answer the phone 24/7...and on a side note......this is America......and alot of good people died to give us the right of free speech. and i for one will say what i feel as long as i can. I have thought long & hard about Leos post since I saw it.as where I agree with some points I can see where others would have a problem with it .to make one point I don't think if I were mad at Denny's I would go to I Hop & tell them to give me some frigging eggs & bacon right now or I'm going to kick your ass!!! I to have been removed from Tow411 but I will say that I enjoyed the site. posted my jobs had great imput there but some were not impressed with myself. I kinda got off on the wrong foot by having a run in with there Mascot kinda didn't know what the deal was but as I tried to repair that I was met with no response. I still watch from the sidelines reading the Tater Patch but that's about it for me .some have tried to get me to sign up under another screen name but I'm not about that. I want people to know me for who I am not just a person behind the keyboard.I agree this is America , agree freedom of speech is a must! I have always told it like I see it but sometimes in life things just don't seem fair but at the end of the day if your happy with who you are when you look in the mirror, I say that's the only thing that matters. We all live our lives differently that's what makes us all different, if we were all the same life would be boring!! Leos thoughts are from the heart ,there what he thinks & what he believes. so be it . I will say I miss being a part of the other site, I enjoyed giving my two cents & posting my work. If in the future I were able to return I would because I enjoyed it . would I change who I am?? No. would I change my thoughts?? No. I am what I am & thats that. but to answer the question here ? thats for the admin of this network to do . its your playground, your decision, no one elses. I see this as a request for help, if Im wrong so be it but if a driver in my company damages a car its my call on his fate. I dont have someone to help me out. this is your board as is Tow41 Rons. he made his decisions there its now your turn here. these are just my thoughts, as someone said over on the other board ."Dont let me be hated for what you think I am , but for who I am" Brett If You Cant Raise The Water Lower The Bridge............................. WWW.WESTWAYTOWING.COM
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twinbulls		#15	[url]	[-]
Posts: 59 02/24/08 21:59:04	Wow !! some crazy stuff going on .... I surf the net and I love the sites like Towtalk.net,,,Tow411,PPP HD,,,,And many others.... My question is are there any lies?? false statements? Fraud ??? Whos sandbox is it ?? Whos coffee table is it ??Where any rules broken ?? So whos house is it ??? I say let it stand..... Because .... You can fool the fans But you can't fool the players. But this is just my opinion. Tim Safari Towing on Facebook be a fan Safari Towing in Florida,Fort Lauderdale Safari Towing in Texas,McKinney,Plano Last Edited By: twinbulls 02/25/08 09:16:54. Edited 1 time.
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brett holcombe		#16	[url]	[-]
Posts: 29 02/24/08 22:16:59	You can fool the fans But you can't fool the players. Tim I like that one. its the truth here in Florida but people in other parts of the world want get it...thats going to be my new logo thats a good one .. thanks for sharing...good job. if only some of the players would get it we would be fine...just got The City of Davie for the next 5 years im pumped!!!!!!se ya down the road.. Brett If You Cant Raise The Water Lower The Bridge............................. WWW.WESTWAYTOWING.COM
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autoexpresstow69		#17	[url]	[-]
Posts: 129 02/25/08 01:45:33	HvywreckerW900 wrote: Leo your a PRICK LMAO!! and you owe me a beer or two for getting my 411 privileges thrown away. Do it again you will owe me a case and a box of cigars LOL. (John is kidding here) Jr Edited for spelling (John was absent the day they taught it) as long as its bud light your on........... and Richard.............thanks for standing up and everyone else...thank you for standing beside me..... *Twinkie Free!*
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HvywreckerW900		#18	[url]	[-]
Posts: 87 02/25/08 17:48:12 Featured Member August 2003Moderator	How about some Sam Adams!!! Well if its on you Leo I`ll drink the bud light just no regular bud. Jr
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WheelLiftWarrior.tow411		#19	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2 03/02/08 22:22:40	So this is where youve been leo lol............ive been up and down us-1 and havent seen you so you better pop out of hiding sooner or later
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autoexpresstow69		#20	[url]	[-]
Posts: 129 03/03/08 05:38:38	Remove this ad WheelLiftWarrior wrote: So this is where youve been leo lol............ive been up and down us-1 and havent seen you so you better pop out of hiding sooner or later who's hiding?............I'm working, was down your office the other day with Tommy when you guys brought in the pizza.......... *Twinkie Free!*
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